Jesus is the Creator God, but why did he create us? What say you?
Sea Breeze
JoinedPosts by Sea Breeze
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Why Did God Create Us?
by Sea Breeze injesus is the creator god, but why did he create us?
what say you?.
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What makes a cult (in the pejorative sense)?
by Vanderhoven7 inmichael moore writes:.
a cult is an organization that enslaves minds and destroys families using cult mind control.
cult mind control involves orchestrated deception, social pressure, psychological abuse, and repetitive indoctrination (brainwashing) centering around an unchallengeable ideology enforced in a totalitarian way in a closed socially-separatist community setting.
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Sea Breeze
Failed predictions have to be a the top of the list for identifying a cult. The Watchtower predicted Jesus' return in : 1878, 1881, 1914, 1918, 1925, 1975, 1995 This is probably the first thing that makes them look like a cult to outsiders.
Deut 18: 20-22 "But the prophet who presumes to speak a word in my name that I have not commanded him to speak, or who speaks in the name of other gods, that same prophet shall die.’
And if you say in your heart, ‘How may we know the word that the Lord has not spoken?’ when a prophet speaks in the name of the Lord, if the word does not come to pass or come true, that is a word that the Lord has not spoken; the prophet has spoken it presumptuously. You need not be afraid of him."Abandonment of teenagers by pissed off JW parents has to be right under that. The level of mind control necessary to abandon your own offspring has to be enormous to overcome family bonds. JW kids are totally unprepared to face people in the world when they are finally forced to flee religious oppression.
When parents make it impossible for the child to live peaceably with their parents and they are forced to leave; the drug addicts, perverts, pimps, trannies, and many others are waiting to pounce on them for exploitation.
Jehovah’s Witness parents are the cruelest people you will ever meet. Most animals treat their offspring better.
Yet, the WT has made them believe that false prophecies are really just eagerness that other (fake) Christians don't have. They claim abandonment of their children and watching them get eat up by predators is really an act of love.
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Is Jesus the Creator?
by Sea Breeze inthat's what the word says.
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colossians 1:16. for by him all things were created, both in the heavens and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or rulers or authorities—all things have been created through him and for him..
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Sea Breeze
Seabreeze...???? You are suggesting the ancient Yahwists knew God the same way
Jesus worshippers do?
Of course not. In the OT, God spoke through prophets. That all changed when he addressed people face to face in the veiled incarnated person of Jesus. (Heb. 1: 1) Only then, was he fully revealed in Jesus. And the people who witnessed his speech, prophecies and self-resurrection all came to the same conclusion rergarding his deity as these data points attest to:
Jesus is called God in Jn. 1:1
Jesus is called God manifest in the flesh in 1 Tim. 3: 16
Jesus is called God by Thomas in Jn 20: 28
Jehovah calls Jesus God in Heb. 1: 8
Titus 2: 23 says Jesus is our God and Savior
Col. 2: 9 says Jesus has the fullness of God
Ignatius (AD 50-117) "Jesus Christ our God"; "the blood of God"; "God in man... Jesus Christ"; our God, Jesus the Christ; "God appeared in human form"; "our God Jesus Christ"; "Jesus Christ, the God who made you".
Polycarp (AD 69-155) "our Lord and God Jesus Christ"
Justin Martyr (AD 100-165) "Christ being Lord, and God the Son of God"; He [Jesus] deserving to be worshipped, as God and as Christ"; the first-begotten Word of God, is even God; "He was God.
Melito of Sardis (died c. AD 180) Pastor of the congregation in Sardis "they slew God"
The Alexamenos graffito (AD 200) Hostile witness testimony that Jesus was worshipped as God. "Alex worshipes his God".
Irenaeus of Lyons (AD 130-202) "He is Himself in His own right, beyond all men who ever lived, God, and Lord, and King Eternal, and the Incarnate Word"; He was very God; "He is God (for the name Emmanuel indicates this) and He shows that He is a man".
Clement of Alexandria (AD 150-215) "He alone being both, God and man"; "He that is truly most manifest Deity, He that is made equal to the Lord of the universe; because He was His Son, and the Word was in God"
Tertullian (AD 150-225) "Christ is Spirit of Spirit, and God of God"
Megiddo Mosaic (AD 230) "Jesus is God"
Hippolytus of Rome (AD 170-235) "the Logos is God"; "God the Word"; "was manifested as God in a body"
Origen (AD 185-254) "Jesus Christ...was incarnate although God"; "the omnipotence of Father and Son is one and the same".
In 325 AD several hundred church Pastors gathered together to look at the heretical teachings of Arius. They took a vote and it was a unanimous vote against Arius with two bishops abstaining. The views of Arius were condemned and the the teachig that Jesus is God was reafirmed.
Never has there been a more consistent view on a subject so well attested and defended than the deity of Jesus.
In what way do you see "evolving character" of Jesus being recognized as God in the above evidence?
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Is Jesus the Creator?
by Sea Breeze inthat's what the word says.
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colossians 1:16. for by him all things were created, both in the heavens and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or rulers or authorities—all things have been created through him and for him..
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Sea Breeze
@ PP
the texts reveal an evolving character, not a singular nature or personality.
The evidence doesn't support this view. The evidence does show a consistent chain of witnesses presenting the orthodox view on the nature of Jesus from the time the events occured all the way through to a gathering of hundreds of congregation leaders in the 4th century.
Jesus is called God in Jn. 1:1
Jesus is called God manifest in the flesh in 1 Tim. 3: 16
Jesus is called God by Thomas in Jn 20: 28
Jehovah calls Jesus God in Heb. 1: 8
Titus 2: 23 says Jesus is our God and Savior
Col. 2: 9 says Jesus has the fullness of God
Ignatius (AD 50-117) "Jesus Christ our God"; "the blood of God"; "God in man... Jesus Christ"; our God, Jesus the Christ; "God appeared in human form"; "our God Jesus Christ"; "Jesus Christ, the God who made you".
Polycarp (AD 69-155) "our Lord and God Jesus Christ"
Justin Martyr (AD 100-165) "Christ being Lord, and God the Son of God"; He [Jesus] deserving to be worshipped, as God and as Christ"; the first-begotten Word of God, is even God; "He was God.
Melito of Sardis (died c. AD 180) Pastor of the congregation in Sardis "they slew God"
The Alexamenos graffito (AD 200) Hostile witness testimony that Jesus was worshipped as God. "Alex worshipes his God".
Irenaeus of Lyons (AD 130-202) "He is Himself in His own right, beyond all men who ever lived, God, and Lord, and King Eternal, and the Incarnate Word"; He was very God; "He is God (for the name Emmanuel indicates this) and He shows that He is a man".
Clement of Alexandria (AD 150-215) "He alone being both, God and man"; "He that is truly most manifest Deity, He that is made equal to the Lord of the universe; because He was His Son, and the Word was in God"
Tertullian (AD 150-225) "Christ is Spirit of Spirit, and God of God"
Megiddo Mosaic (AD 230) "Jesus is God"
Hippolytus of Rome (AD 170-235) "the Logos is God"; "God the Word"; "was manifested as God in a body"
Origen (AD 185-254) "Jesus Christ...was incarnate although God"; "the omnipotence of Father and Son is one and the same".
In 325 AD several hundred church Pastors gathered together to look at the heretical teachings of Arius. They took a vote and it was a unanimous vote against Arius with two bishops abstaining. The views of Arius were condemned and the the teachig that Jesus is God was reafirmed.
Never has there been a more consistent view on a subject so well attested and defended than the deity of Jesus.
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Who Directs the Activitie$ and Doctrines of the Hovering Body?
by Sea Breeze injehovah’s witnesses boast that theirs is a “spirit-directed organization”.. see w88 3/1 pp.
10-17 (my life in jehovah’s spirit-directed organization).
they believe that their deceased founder, charles taze russell (who faced legal action by his wife for inappropriate behavior in his maids bedroom), is directing the modern-day work of jehovah’s witnesses.. after the founder, c t russell died, it was stated that he was still directing the work from heaven.. "though pastor russell has passed beyond the veil, he is still managing every feature of the harvest work.
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Sea Breeze
Good points as usual TonusOH,
There shall not be found among you anyone who... inquires of the dead, 12 for whoever does these things is an abomination to the Lord. - Duet 18: 10 & 12
Tony Morris caught "testing the spirits" on hidden camera.
JW’s teach that their leaders replaced Jesus as the head of the church (Christian believers) in 1919. Anyone who does not support WT leaders as rulers of the world are labelled as apostates to the true faith. They characterize such loyal believers in Christ alone as “mentally ill”.
Here’s the quote:
“Suppose that a doctor told you to avoid contact with someone who is infected with a contagious, deadly disease. You would know what the doctor means, and you would strictly heed his warning. Well, apostates are “mentally diseased,”
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Who Directs the Activitie$ and Doctrines of the Hovering Body?
by Sea Breeze injehovah’s witnesses boast that theirs is a “spirit-directed organization”.. see w88 3/1 pp.
10-17 (my life in jehovah’s spirit-directed organization).
they believe that their deceased founder, charles taze russell (who faced legal action by his wife for inappropriate behavior in his maids bedroom), is directing the modern-day work of jehovah’s witnesses.. after the founder, c t russell died, it was stated that he was still directing the work from heaven.. "though pastor russell has passed beyond the veil, he is still managing every feature of the harvest work.
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Sea Breeze
How does the Governing Body determine if the spirits that are guiding them are from Russell and other past WT Presidents, or if they are really malevolent spirits in disguise?
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Theocratic Warfare and Taqiyya
by aqwsed12345 inthe concept of strategic deception exists in several religious and ideological contexts.
in this article, we will explore and compare the theocratic warfare doctrine of the watchtower society and taqiyya in islam.
both concepts have parallels in their mechanisms of permitting deception for religious purposes but differ significantly in their application and historical roots.. 1. theocratic warfare: the "rahab method".
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Sea Breeze
Donations to Watchtower are buried as "expenses".
So they make a "cost" based on what such a facility might cost of they didn't own it?
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Is Jesus the Creator?
by Sea Breeze inthat's what the word says.
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colossians 1:16. for by him all things were created, both in the heavens and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or rulers or authorities—all things have been created through him and for him..
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Sea Breeze
The most basic example of this paradox is Jesus (the word) himself saying, ' the father is greater than I'. Then you have John, who says, 'the word was god'.
What about the quote from jesus at Matt 24:36? 'No one knows the day or hour but the father'? How can anyone possibly read that verse and decide it means that jesus = god, without serious mental gymnastics?Joey,
It is an unnecessary (and unbiblical) stipulation to overlay a Materialistic view of the nature of man on scripture, and then claim there is some sort of parodox. This is what you, and JW's in general are unwilling to give up:
Materialism is a form of philosophical monism which holds that matter is the fundamental substance in nature, and that all things, including mental states and consciousness... According to philosophical materialism, mind and consciousness are caused by physical processes, such as the neurochemistry of the human brain and nervous system, without which they cannot exist. - Wikipedia
Jesus sometimes speaks from his human nature, and at other times speakes from his omnipotent nature as God, because he has both natures. I believe the problem that you are having understanding this chart is not because it is complicated. It is because of its implications. If we are constructed as body-soul-spirit, and each one is characterized as your person (You) in scripture, then it immediately begs the question: Where will I spend conscious eternity after the demise of my body?
This is the glaring stupendous reality that the depraved sub-conscious mind wants to suppress and bury at all costs. It is not much different than Adam and Eve hiding from God in the garden. For the JW, atheist, secularist, the ultimate object of their desire is for there to be nothing when they die. That belief is their greatest comfort and it is a false hope and a lie. It is a lie eagerly accepted, even demanded.
The suppression of our nature, as explained in scripture, is what is standing in the way of understanding the nature of Jesus, not a "parodox" that arises when materialism is superimposed on scripture.
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Is Jesus the Creator?
by Sea Breeze inthat's what the word says.
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colossians 1:16. for by him all things were created, both in the heavens and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or rulers or authorities—all things have been created through him and for him..
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Sea Breeze
I will cut you some slack because you are neither Jewish nor went to Hebrew school nor have studied in Israel (or perhaps been).
@ Kaleb:
When my wife gets a little overly critical of me, like every wise and successful man, I've learned certain disarming come-backs that bypasses arguments and fosters the possibility of humor. I will now offer you one of my favorite lines that gets a smile most every time from her: "Please excuse my ignorance". (delivered in perfect grade-school level Appalacian dialect)
I couldn't help but notice that you describe yourself as knowledgeable in Rabinic Judaism, and I do appreciate your insights in that regard. But, I have never heard you mention much about The Essene community responsible for the thousands of dead sea scrolls. Surely a group responsible for that kind of library, theology and community deserves to be looked at?
I think that Christians in general are fairly dismissive of Pharisaical style interpretations because of the strong denunciations levied at them from a man who walked out of a tomb, the Author and Finisher of our faith. After all, we Christians have decided to trust our eternity in his hands, so we are naturally sensitive to his viewpoints. While Jesus warned mankind to be wary of the leaven of the Pharisees and Saducees (Mt. 6: 16), there is not a similar recorded denunciation of the Essenes by him. I find that omission interesting.
From what I understand, The Essenes were very critical of the Pharisees method of OT interpretation, using their oral traditions formulated in their elders meetings to interpret scripture. Christians, later agreed with this view and accused Talmudic views as instrumental in blinding adherents to Messaniac realities found in the OT.
By contrast, according to Johnson, the Essenes seemed to have stuck to ancient testimonies of well regarded figures in Israel's past to serve as an interpretave lens in which to interpret OT scripture, especially prophecy. Some of these works were regarded to be Medieval forgeries faked by Christians because it was inconceivable to scholars that ancient B. C. works by Jews could contain theology so closely aligned to Christian themes, like grace, atonement, God manifesting in the flesh etc. When fragments showed up in the Dead Sea scrolls, dated to before Christ, they were more diffficult to dismiss as Christian forgeries. At any rate, the messanic characterizations between the two groups were very far apart.
Your views on how Christianity began to have a new era of prophets with the advent of Christian faith is not supported in New Testament scripture. Hebrews 1 places prophets as a convention of the past, being replaced by God's Son who is over "all things" and "the express image" of God.
True, God did cause some of the apostles to record the New Testament, but this is revealed in Revelation to come from God the Son, described as "the Alpha and Omega"... "the Almighty" (Rev. 1:8) And then, with the death of the apostles, not only was the canon closed, but so was the possiblity of new light (gospel intrepretation) from any future so-called prophet. (cf.Gal. 1:8-9)
Christians today do not look to prophets, but to The Word (Jesus - "The Spirit of Prophecy") as mankind's complete revelation of God to man, and final authority.
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New here
by AdamCzarnobay ini left the organization in 2017.. was in several congregations in the north west of england.
i just wanted to say thank you to all of you that have posted on here over the years, it really helped me to see the truth about the organization.
i lurked here for many years under an anonymous login and then finally plucked up the courage to write my disassociation letter.. adam.
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Sea Breeze
Good for you Adam. Looking forward to hearing about your next stop on your freedom train.